If the President is not bound by the aggreements and laws of the national he is governing then what is the fucking point of having a Geneva Convention?
This latest bullshit that Bushes lawyers investigated how to scoot around torture laws and regulations – this is not a few dumb shit kicks in Abu Ghraib – this is systemic disregard for any process or decency. Evidently, if you are the president and you condone torturing someone it is not torture because that is not something the president is allowed to do.
He is merely helping to defend the country. So if it isn’t torture – what the hell is it? This is like the arguments that Guanatanamo Bay is not under military jurisdicition or American jurisdiction – and not Cuban jurisdiction – it is a lawless state – does anyone else think that that is a completely stupid and irresponsible idea?
Please, Bush-fans out there – explain to me how you can stand by such a grossly negligent and disgusting arrogant administration? I’m not asking you to be for Kerry – but how can you truly be for Bush? Do you really not find his actions morally repugnant? Tell me what I am blind to – please.
And now with that new hostage in Saudi Arabia they are going to jump up and down about POW treatment and hostages and the Geneva Conventions – all the while wiping the blood of their mouths with that same document.
The war crimes just keep a-comin’.
Comments
8 responses to “Torture Is Not Torture”
YIKES ! I hate to comment (as a Bush supporter) to such a hottie as yourself BUT you leave me no choice. The presidents job is a task that has much more complexity than we allow for. I would not say I support everything Bush does, however; I am a Republican and will stand by the party. As for Kerry….well, I don’t have anything to type. Hoping you take the comments in friendship.
Okay Matthew, you’re reasonable enough – why are you voting for Bush? What is it about his policies and administration that make you proud? What does he stir in you?
I’d argue that the president’s job is crisply laid out from the over 200 years the office has been in existence and the extensive layers and networks of agreements in domestic and international law. Also that because leadership is so complex that is why we have a three-branch structure with checks and balances.
Here is a great video of Bush preparing to address America from the Oval Office… uggh.
http://wstreaming.zdf.de/300/030408_frontal21_6.asx
“We are all responsible for what has happened”
And that of course hinges on the electoral process actually being carried out according to designs and not being thwarted by voter purging. (Granted Gore totally screwed up by not truly demanding all votes be counted – he only went for the few counties he needed to win)
“daily power cuts, a three-day working week, petrol rationing”
I’ll never forget that the first thing we were told to do after the terrorist attacks was to go shopping. Not pull together as a community, but support the economy.
This…all of this, we should remember 30 years from now how people fought each other over protecting America instead of uniting to fight a common enemy.
Number One: The Geneva Conventions don’t have a single f*ing thing to do with anything that’s happening with the Arabs. The were written specifically for European wars — you know, the kind of thing where Prince A wakes up with a toothache and decides to invade the next country. The kind of situation where you’ve got two gangs of guys in spiffy uniforms beating up on one another with sticks. Lots of the provisions of the Geneva Accords, like the “no dum-dums” rule (which isn’t really what it sounds like), are designed to make the whole experience more fun for Princes A and B, who get to sit in their thrones above the battlefield and watch. Maybe side by side. Sharing wine and concubines.
People who set roadside bombs at random, people who capture “the enemy” and behead them after rants, simply don’t fit in that picture. The extension of the Geneva Convention treatments to the Islamists is an act of unnecessary generosity — perhaps we should extend the full, literal, legal meaning of the Conventions to the Islamists. That would mean shooting them out of hand wherever they were encountered. You’d love that, wouldn’t you? But it would be entirely in accord with both the spirit and the letter of the Conventions.
Second: The “torture” you are all decrying is psychological stress — things like playing the music too loud, not letting them sleep, or waking the up at odd hours; you know, the kind of thing your favorite bar’s neighbors go through. Making them sit in uncomfortable chairs for long periods of time, doing “ghost noises” to make them unsure if their buddies are OK; fraternity initiation stuff writ large. The kind of hot pincers thing you’re thinking of isn’t used much if at all, for the simple reason that it doesn’t work. The information it gains is almost always just whatever the torturee thinks will make the pain stop, useless guff.
The people who “tortured” Iraqis by subjecting them to the kind of thing that (if I’m reading you right) many of your acquaintances would pay good money to experience are being punished appropriately. That program was begun when the offenses were discovered; trials were underway and many completed by January. But it wasn’t [sneer]newsworthy[/sneer] until the Press got hold of those lovely wonderful pictures. Meanwhile our guys get to die because the interrogators can’t use the psychostress techniques that actually work, and that’s because you lefties can’t tell the difference between that and torture.
As for voting for Bush and supporting Rumsfeld, let me toss something back at you. According to you folks, Republicans are rich, arrogant, elitist people whose only contact with minorities is as servants and whose wealth wasn’t earned; so tell me why it is that the Democratic candidate is the only Republican in the race by those criteria.
Regards,
Ric Locke
Wow – you really think George Bush has worked an honest day in his life?
You know. You’re right. I forgot how George grew up poor and got straight A’s to get into college and built his own business by his own sweat and toil. He has never been one to use the enourmous contacts and wealth his family has amassed or never once abused his position to increase his profits. I’m so sorry I was mistaken.
So you feel that the Geneva Conventions don’t apply in Iraq? Even if the people being tortured have not been charged/tried with anything – even if they are family members of dissenters?
You don’t thinkg Americans should take a higher moral ground?